American Political Definitions....help

Roger Blake

Pardon the European idiot here...but what is the American definition of "liberal"?

Note: Don't talk to me about Democrats or Republicans...or some "Congressman Johnson" who did something or another, who I have no idea who they are...I have little knowledge of your internal domestic politics, so such references would be mostly meaningless...you know, keep it "generic" to the "basic principles" and that kind of thing, so we don't hit any "cultural" issues...

Because American "liberal" and "conversative" seem to mean something entirely different to what this means elsewhere...

For example, a "conservative" here would be a believer in personal freedoms, small non-interfering government, etc....but Bush has a neo-fascist "Patriot Act" impinging everyone's Civil Liberties on the say-so of the tyrannical "King" who operates with power absolute on "suspicion" - without evidence - alone, spends and spends like there's no tomorrow, religiously moralising and imposing his personal beliefs on what I always thought was supposed to be a secular society, etc....this American definition of "conservative" seems entirely different to what it means everywhere else...so, could someone supply the "definition" - the set of beliefs - that defines American conservatism? Because, you know, it's difficult to discuss or even understand your politics when everything seems "upside-down" in these wildly variant definitions...

I also heard about there being American "liberals" who object to the Declaration of Independence and Consbreastution...this makes little sense to me because it would seem the most liberal Consbreastution ever conceived...perhaps one of the most liberal documents ever written...yet, the discussion becomes vastly confusing for me because, despite this, people talk of "liberals" being highly unamerican and that they attack these things...which doesn't really seem to add up...

In America, many Christians all seem to be conservative fundamentalist and right-wing...which, again, seems bizarre as Jesus seems closest politically to being a "liberal" and "moderate"...

Also, here in the UK, all the TV is typically left-wing and the press very right-wing...this also seems to be "back to front" in America...

I know we're supposed to be "two nations divided by a common language" but it's terribly confusing when you seem to define everything "backwards" from how everyone else usually defines it everywhere else...

I'm quite serious...could someone provide a "translation" here?

Some kind of "definition" where judgemental moralising ("judge not, lest thou be judged yourself") and waging war after war ("thou shalt not kill", "Turn the other cheek", etc.) are "Christian"??? And where spending too much ("small non-interfering government") and bringing in laws to destroy individual Liberties and freedoms ("individualism") are "Conserative"???

Because it all seems defined completely the wrong way around in America, in comparison to how things are defined pretty much in every country I've ever encountered and talking to people from all around the world on these subjects...

I daren't use words like "liberal" or "conservative" or "socialist" or "moderate" around Americans because goodness knows what strange and unusual way you interpret these words...

Indeed, America is the nation that's supposed to be founded and guaranteed on secularism and religious racial tolerance - "the land of the free" - but what I see of the practice doesn't quite seem to match the "theory"...and even countries where no such consbreastutional guarantee of secularism and tolerance, often seem to have far less theocracy and racial issues...

I'm a "fan" of the Forefathers and such...very interested in America...but I confess I don't understand the modern American mindset at all...perhaps it's me and not you, but I find modern America and Consbreastutional America almost completely different worlds...like Venus and Mars or something...

Indeed, I was advocating education, Liberty, self-determinism and such in a post earlier...then get called a "Nazi" by an American, who's backing - let's see - "pre-emptive strikes" (as used by Hitler), the use of "camps" that defy the rule of law and basic humane treatment (as used by Hitler), Gestapo "detention without trial" powers (as used by Hitler), to wage an imperial quest for some "Reich" (Hitler's objective being the "Third Reich")...and these factually Nazi policies are, in American eyes, not "Nazi"...while opposing them is? I really don't get it at all, sorry...

This, I've began to observe, is one factor in why the rest of the world has such a problem with America at times...we don't really even know if we agree or disagree with the American "mindset" because it's so alien and strangely defined in places that it's hard to know what you're all saying you believe in...and, seriously, I've met people from all around the world and there's lots of disagreement in atbreastudes and things, sure...language barriers...but I often find it more impossible to understand the American speaking fluent English - when it comes to politics (everything is just fine) - than nearly anyone else in the world speaking poor broken English...they are oddly more comprehensible because at least words mean what you expect them to mean...

But America seems to have not only invented its own sports different to the rest of the world...but have invented your own definitions for words that don't seem to match what the rest of the world means by them...

"Liberal" has the same stem word as "Liberty" (freedom), "Library" (education, knowledge) and "Libra" (scales, balance, justice)...yet, in the American usage I keep seeing, a "liberal" is synonymous with "evil incarnate" and, thus, represents someone who completely opposes all these things?!? Is that right or isn't it? I've really completely lost track entirely...it isn't making much sense...

Or is it that certain political parties call themselves "liberal" but, basically, they are lying when they say that? Is that where the confusion is? Or do we actually mean that "liberalism" itself is "evil incarnate" and the "liberal" political parties ARE properly "liberal" and "liberal" is the problem?

So, what is the definition - the ideological base and such - of a "liberal" and a "conservative" in the American definition? Because I just can't properly follow these discussions when people seem to be using the words with definitions that seem "backwards" from the ones I know and would use with everyone else around the world (normally with zero comprehension problems as to what's being discussed)...

Again, please refrain from some "regionalised" examples or whatever about internal politics or specific politicians because, simply, I won't know who you mean...you know, some "liberals are arseholes like Senator Reginald Fitzpatrick" or some other explanation like that which involves someone or something internal to America that I won't know, so comments like that would prove quite useless...in "generic" and "ideological" terms of the "principles" that these two groups are supposed to represent...

Right, let me start the ball rolling and correct this where it differs...a "conservative" is someone who believes in individualism, small government, non-interference, privatisation free markets, Capitalism, consumer choice, etc....yes? Is that correct?

Beth :)