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The 8008 1760

Don't ditch farming outright. It is among the cheaper alternatives for bulk fuel that is not generated from fossile sources.

The farming needs fertilizer, which can be synthetic given a modest amount of electrical energy. It also needs land and water.

The 8008 1761
We must expect short range prices in the range of $100-$250 a gallon for such fuel...

LPG are also among the easier hydrocarbons to synthesize. If you can make hydrogen you can also make methane, ethane, buthane and propane. The latter ones are easily stored in tanks of comparatively low pressure.

I see the "hydrogen economy" as a bit of fairy tale dreamland for eco-techies that have both feet firmly placed in thin air.

It does not solve the #1 problem; which is to generate enough sustainable energy for an acceptable price.

It has a moderatly bad solution to the #2 problem, which is to transport that energy. It may have a somewhat acceptable loss figure, but stinks from a safety and transport cost standpoint.

Just for the record, I hold several certifications to handle and inspect high pressure gases and their cylinders. Taking those made me think a lot less positively about hydrogen.

I much prefer diesel fuel. It doesn't go anywhere gravity and leaky containers doesn't send it; it has a high ignition temperature; you can carry it in a zinc bucket if you have to; and if you put a lighted sigarette into it it will just extiguish that cig. It is not too bad in terms of toxisity. (Propane, gasoline and kerosene are far, far worse) . The worst downside is that it stearizes in low tempteratures and that bugs live in it. Both of these are several orders of magnitude smaller problems than transporting even small amounts of hydrogen. They can also be solved with procedures any farmer worth their salt can arrange with the tools they already have.

And, not least, the conversion of a diesel car to accept this fuel involves installing a $20 filter and adjusting the valves. Cars with engine computer control usually sense where the fuel burns best and adapt, so you don't have to adjust anything.

My aquaintances that deal in the eco industry tell me that biodiesel is among the first farmed energy products that become cost effective.

The 8008 1762
That's buttuming that the analysts can discriminate between anthropogenic and natural contribution. They don't appear to be able to do so with...

Economic solutions to such problems are usually pretty mundane stuff.

One of the major problems about converting the energy supply is the investment barrier. Just imagine how much hardware must be changed to move to hydrogen, or even hybrid cars.

The 8008 1764
snip-- In the reference above Prof. Jaworowski does not mention 13C depletion in the ice core data. Among other things, he takes issue with measurement difficulties with accurate dating of recent CO2 content of the...

-- mrr

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