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It doesn't matter how they were different. You can't really change something if you don't have something to change to.

Or course. That's how we got all those different kinds of flavors. Each essentially polished a different section of the original faith. Most didn't get started until the existing practices had become a means of corruption. A similar thing happens with politics. Corruption tends to breed corruption because it's what works for a little while. When the general populace finally gets fed up with too much corruption, there's an overthrow, a coup, a revolution, or a change of blood lines of the ruling inheritance. One of the reasons a representative democracy works is because nothing stays in power long enough to establish ingrained procedures of the same corruption. It takes decades to establish the working procedures and training to make a flavor of corruption part of the establishment.

It has to. An organized society depends on most people showing up for work every day to tweak and babysit the infrastructures and goods movements. Take a good look at how much knowledge has been lost just in the computing biz itself. And there was no war, very little intentional destruction...just normal business over time.

I think so. I think you've been based in an more isolated, thus more self-reliant, political and econonmic area. Your area would do much better than the rest of Western areas because you all still know how to do the important things. You'll have problems in the long-term due to anything you're importing...like iron ore-based products; things made out of ores that you don't mine, etc.

I've been actively researching this and thinking aobut this for decades. If you can recall any, pay attention whenever I ranted and raved about knowledge loss. I was thinking about what had to be distributed, preserved, and accessible to prevent a caveman level. I was trying to the 1600s level. I'm beginning to rexamine my buttumption that halving the recovery period is a good thing. The 1600s level is halving the recovery period.

Now think about all the holes in the work flows. Add the holes in the communication flows. Do a search of all my posts when I rant about cold starts. Nobody can cold start a machine any more. Extrapolate that to other aspects of society. I have. It is not pretty. This not a femaleish emotional reaction that is to be pooh-poohed and ignored. This is not based on fear and can be pooh-poohed as a female emotional reaction. Finally, this has nothing to do with f***ing politics as quite a few here have been coloring my posts.

I've got books about that but haven't read them yet.

I've read a couple books of Russian history starting from before the Golden Khan (that may be the wrong name). If I can locate one of them in my piles, I'll post the breastle.

Most of studying had to do with how did knowledge become lost and how the world recovered or rediscovered them and what aspects of society had to be in place before people could rebuild the collective knowledge.

Which, I read and interpreted correctly, the Czar was starting to do. This was something that Lenin had to "correct" because it didn't keep the existing estate owner-peon status quo.

At that time a number of Muslim areas got their independence but Lenin fixed that problem.

Because that is what succeeded. Germany was had full intentions of acquiring Russia. So there was the threat of a serious enemy on the west coast. Japan had similar designs on Russian property; so there was another serious threat on the east coast. Then there was always China who had tons of manpower of itself and was also being acquired by Japan.

If not Stalin, another just like him would have been ruler. Or there wouldn't have been a Russia for us to talk about. The visciousness of Russian rule was a habit of centuries of the ruling clbutt. Note that the ruling clbutt was not the Czar but their "legislature"; there is a name for it but I can't remember. It is those people who kept the same policies and procedures from Czarist days thru the revolutions and contined within a communism coat.

Yes, they would have had to or there would be a war between Gernmany and Japan going on right now somewhere around Mongolia borders and south.

Never. That would have taken control of rule out of the hands of the ruling clbutt.

For all their food and water and metals? Maybe metals already manufactured. I'll try to look for a book on them.

Fine, look for examples. Try to pinpoint what caused the decline. So far, the only one I've been able to identify is trade stopping for whatever reason. When the trade stops, so does the civilization.

I don't know. I've been having man-months of debates with myself about this.

Oh, good. relieved emoticon here Now consider millions who cannot clean a fish. This is the simpliest form of gleaning food that I can think of.

BAH