Blame offshoring for the negatives of immigration 4450

On Tue, 31 May 2005, rkusenet

In case you don't know it, there are some Americans who work more than 8 hours per day (I did in graduate school, postdoc, and two positions in real jobs, and I was not paid by the hour). I think there are many people in many places around the world -- maybe not average people -- who do this.

But why should that be a problem to others? What next?

I refer you to my statement above, and I made this statement in my other post.

And, what generalization can you draw from this? That the example Indian: i) does not like his wife's company? feels he should treat her like dirt? ii) Indians are trying to prove they are tough? iii) Indians are (several others), iv) (some) Indians will work longer than (some) Americans per day?

OK I will tell you a story. True story. Off the coast of Louisiana was a large fishing fleet. Americans and Vietnamese. Each had their own fleet of boats. The Americans had a deal where each agreed to regulate their areas for two reasons: i) not to over fish, and ii) not to cause disagreements with who has a right to be in what waters. The Vietnamese felt they did not have to belong to this deal and so there was very hard feelings, and violence. You can easily conclude, if you want to, that the Vietnamese SHOULD be free to do their fishing anywhere they wanted and in any way that they wanted. I can name many other situations where maybe fault can be found with the non-American side. I can name situations where maybe falut can be found with the American side.

Certainly in America there are many immigrants from certain areas that will work some poor job for poor pay and not be blamed for something. I have seen many examples of these.

Maybe there is no level playing field, eh? Maybe India and China have found a commodity (cheap flesh) that can be used against American "superior" technology that you said we still have (but I said we are losing it maybe I should say we already lost it since the mbutt trend is to move everything but the executive offices to the East and the trucking system that moves products to buyers here).

Maybe the "level playing field" is something that bosses, rich people, and powerful people define as something that benefits THEM and don't worry if an Indian is underpaid or an American is fired and replaced by an Indian. But, I will still ask you if you have a job that you can do and you want to keep the job, no matter how you show it including working for 12 hours per day and get paid for 8, or less, do you think you would be happy or unhappy if someone took that job away from you and gave it to someone else, regardless of how good you were or how good the other person is? If you lost a job, would that just make you willing to work 14 hours on the next job to get paid for 8 hours. Or, make up your own statistics and tell me how you would feel if something important to you was taken away from you and given to someone else. How about a loved one. A wife. A kid.

And, you still did not respond to the situation where the decisions are based on skin color. And, I had some experience with "civil rights" where I was white and I was replaced by a black person and I know that it was done not out of merit, but just "to be fair." And, I had another similar experience but the story is too long and complex.

You did not comment on how employers will not even consider an American programmer (for example) since they can pay a foreigner less money. Even in large corporations where everyone goes home at 5 pm. Everyone. They have the visa as axe but not for an American. This is all very well documented. Maybe some immigrants will work longer hours for 8 hours of pay, too. But, the stories I hear, the laid off Americans are not even PERMITTED to offer to work longer for less pay. Out they go, period.

Yeah, you say "compete like a man" but what you don't see is your condition for compebreastion is "no Americans can apply for this job" and I told you about it in my prior post.

There are a lot of discriminations and I know too many stories from too many real situations and there is documentation (even the president of Intel said a few days ago that Intel can continue to grow and not have to hire any more Americans they are hiring 500 more Russians by the end of this year to add to the 500 they already employ in Russia and it is comon knowledge that they can be paid much less). And, so, America provides jobs, directly or indirectly, for (almost) everyone but Americans. America sends so much money everywhere. American pays so much money that helps all of these countries grow themselves. Every 3rd world country wants trade status so they can make cheap goods and send them here. All of our office jobs will leave here. We will lose the agricultural trade surplus this year, too. Now, a majority of our seafood comes from SE Asia. Everyone comes here for college and now many go back where they came from and use what we teach them to not sell to their own people, but to sell to the USA. Where are the good jobs in the USA? In the few corporate offices of the executives who often don't work but get paid a lot of money. Quite a few in recent years have defrauded everyone with fake accounting and now there are very big court cases. So, we are losing our middle clbutt, and another study showed that more than half of all new jobs created in the USA are going to immigrants...because they are desperate and will work cheap and can sign up for many government programs for lots of free services. And, Americans need not apply because their resumes will just go into the garbage can.

And, so, all of these countries of people just forget that there are people here, too, but they remember that America is just a "cash cow" ....just do anything and the money will come. Someday I think it will stop and lots of people will suffer.

The issue is bigger than the issue of "level playing field" but if you want to brag about yourself or say Americans are just lazy, or both, go ahead. Some Americans do want to spend time with their families and do other things. This is what is was in the past. The future does not look good for Americans in America (except for executives), but it looks very good for non-Americans who will live a life maybe not as much better than back in their 3rd world country because they will live here and get paid less than an American. And, just remember, not that many Americans are born with the "golden spoon" in their mouths.

And, I am in the s.r.c forum, but I enjoy the cross posts from a.c.c and I send some back.