Laws against globalization.... 2916

Well, the situation is more complicated that it seems. Bush regime did everything in his powers to make the globalization if not unstopable at

least extremely painfull for American people if they will try to stop it. The fact that will be as painfull if they won't try it is just a side effect.

(correct, but ray-gun, bush1, and clinton all did the same thing. if you look at what they did, they futurized most of the really bad stuff, so it takes years to come to bloom, and we are living the hell right now of the actions of the last 20 plus years, just think of what it will be like 10 years from now. will we be able to drink and breath for free?)

The issue with tarifs is the fact that India and China will retaliate with tarifs against US. Let buttume we bring the trade to a stop.

(no this must not be allowed to happen. even at the heights of the depression tariffs were quickly rolled back to a more fair reduction of trade. then it became fair trade, not one way free trade.)

China say: We won't ship anything to you until you pay all the debt to us. In meantime they can trade with Iran, Saudi etc... for oil. However, US

won't be able to sell anything in China due to tarifs since US price + tarifs against US will be bigger than EU price. EU sell to them US no.

(we already have that, look china and india are not minding the rules of the w.t.o., and the w.t.o. is looking the other way because they are the rent seekers who are benefiting most from this. so because of that there is one way free trade. but there is more to it than that. even if we were to be able to penetrate there markets there are still barriers, one is we make nothing they want because we have given to them all of the capabilities to make all that we need. next barrier is that most of them are dirt poor, and if we invented something that we could manage to make ourselves they would either quickly steal it, or so few could buy it that it would not matter to cut the twin deficits, and we still lose. the e.u. can do what we used to do because the e.u. has artificial barriers that help to keep the value chain alive, and working for them. just check out the sneaky way they neutered tulips that were under minding the dutch, what a stroke of genius, and the cheap tulips can still come in, thus robbing the libertarian fascists big world government of there ability to call it what it really is, there right to self determination. they simply used the w.t.o. rules to apply a big fat safety inspection fee on each tulip. cool huh!)

1. Look at your clothes labels. How many of them are made in US? 2. Look at your shoes labels. How many of them are made in US? 3. Look at your computers labels. How many of them are manufactured in US? 4. Look at your parts from your computer. How many of them are manufactured in US?

(correct, and it must be stopped. you make a good argument against free trade. we have lost our right to self determination, and other countries know this. so they will do what ever it takes to make sure we do nothing.)

If trade come to a stop the prices of this commodities will jump 3 to 10 times.

(it will be painful, but so will the consequences if we do not stop this lunacy. we will have a depression either way, but if we start all over free, then we will be better for it.)

Offshoring in clothing industry is done for years and we have almost no clothing plant left here and machines from closed plants were moved to China long ago. Until we rebuild the plants from scratch and new machines to get our clothing production started again, we are going to pay for one pair of underware the same as we pay today for 2 business suits.

( they will pull the plug on us the minute they get a inkling of what you have planned. we have lost our freedom and the right to self determination because of this. so do you think they will sit by the wayside and allow us to rebuild. or will they and the criminal libertarian fascist empire retaliate the minute we try to rebuild?)

The US dollar will collapse. We will not be able to pay for our oil required to start rebuilding our economy. We may see hyperinflation of 10000-1 or even more. Without oil we have a hard time to even build ethanol plants. Because we need fuel to build them in the first place before we can use it to fuel our cars. Is going to be a total mess.

(all correct, and well said. but its gonna happen anyway. there is no good ending to free market economics. just look at the 1800's, and the build up to two world wars.)

This is the reason I said tens of times on these newsgroups that tarifs are not a solution to slow globalization.

(incorrect. we were globalized in the 1800's, but after the collapse of free market economics in the late 1920's, we learned another way in the 30's, we did tariff, but not lock out the imports. we must be able to pay our bills. you cannot put the onus on the american taxpayer to let hucksters sell there slave made wares, and force us into subsidizing them.)

There is however a solution: Increase corporate and capital gain taxes to finance from them: health care, full retirement, superior education and longer and better welfare for unemployed. Many countries already do that so there is no retaliation possible against it.

( all well said except the countries that do what you say they do also build up internal barriers to unfettered free trade. they insbreastute fee's of all sorts on incoming goods and services, and also have a vat tax as a last resort to catch what is still able to elude there ability to stay free, and have self determination. under your scenario which is a good one by the way the rent seekers will still be able to elude the tax man, and bring in exploited goods and services that will under cut anything that you try. look at a vat as a tariff, it will be the final check and balance to those free market fascists that will try to elude your tax system, and sap the freedom, and wealth out of a country.)

These taxes are payed by everybody regardless if they produce in US or offshore.

(ah ha, that is a tariff, you are just putting lipstick on a pig. it is clever. but can they elude it? it is always better to be able to physically control your own country borders for your right to self determination and freedom.)

However, the companies producing here will be able to eliminate their fixed expenses with pensions-401k and health care therefore the offshore companies will lose a strong advantage they have against US companies. And we keep the current consumer spending power so we are not going to hurt our economy.

(agreement here. why subsidize libertarian slavers? we need to be responsive to freedom lovers. but again the free market will reduce wages even further, or manipulate currencies even more. there are ways around your scheme, and the final check and balance is at the border.)

Taking advantage of free education and gov. financed research centers we can do research for the next generation of technologies and the new discoveries will be implemented into small startups partially owned by gov. which (as shareholder) can prevent offshoring of the new technology until they sell the shares. Then we get a new cutting edge industry able to export goods China and India can not produce them yet.

(never give up our ownership because that is lost freedom. let the free market do what they brag they do, and that is to innovate which most cannot do, so the true parasites will whither on the vine, and we must remain free.)

This is the ONLY solution to globalization. Let start with rolling back

idiotic tax cuts for the rich and corporations. These tax cuts hurt our

economy and encourage offshoring jobs.

(agreed on the tax thing, you need to tweak the rest, other wise like i said, you are good debater.)