Mbutt. buttault on Monoculture 6575

Bob

I said it at least twice before. This is the last time. I see you don't get what I'm saying: I am not condoning torture and do not want to see it becoming legal. All I was saying (and you'll see that if you read back) is that abuses happen, torture happens even if it's not legal. Some of the people who tortured others in Iraq have been tried. It was all about what do you do when you find out what happened. Mark was trying to move the discussion toward the legality of torture, I wasn't talking about that. So there's no question about finding out if somene's guilty, it's about what do you do after. UK was involved in the torture scandal with the US right at the begining. Whatever happened to that? You can't really tell how many japanese and germans were tortured during WWII. You also can't tell how many people have been tortured during the Cold War by secret services. You can't really tell whether or not the whole democracy we're so happy to live in was not built on shameful doings. Actually, I bet it was. That does not mean I condone torture, it means I accept it exists and that sometime, something good comes (or came) out of it.

I am not a supporter of Israel, I am indifferent about Israel. Just another country. However, I'll leave it to you and Mark to label me as either fascist or jew lover (or maybe both?) as you are better at this than at reading and understanding. I remember this name calling habit from the communists: 'enemy of the people'.

Oh, your characterization of Europe doesn't apply anymore. You should listen to the cries of desperation from the countries that entered the EU. Don't try to sell me your experience. I know Europe! Also, the fact that there's a market economy in the EU countries does not mean they are not ruled by socialist parties, which they are. As a matter of fact there's a decrease in the quality of services offered in sectors where the government has a saying. The private sector started fighting back but they're not too succesful at it because it's difficult to fight when there's a monopoly involved. I think UK is the only EU country I'd like to live in. And, finally, back to Linux: I hope that the EU will find the strength to do the right thing in the MS case. I hope that the pressure from MS compebreastion both in Europe and US will give it an extra push. MS finds itself in trouble also in US and Asia. Maybe they'll play nice the next time.