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OS X is PROOF linux that sucks! 17075


OS X is PROOF linux that sucks! 17080
It is true as long as you allow for, as you have admitted, conditions. It is not true of all distros of Linux, but it is of many - even most. Please...

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 07:43:47 -0700, Snit

No, I didn't "excuse" it in any way. I stole the products, plain and simple. I committed what amounts to a criminal act.

That said, I did so for the express purpose of evaluating the software for purchase - and ended up purchasing it. Your whine about pirated copies that wouldn't equate to sales is hardly comparable, since you yourself seem to admit that in those cases - which seems to be, IME, the majority of pirating - there is absolutely no intent whatsoever to buy the software.

If you can't get it from a source that allows returning opened software, you can't evaluate it without ponying up the entire purchase price - and if it *isn't* what you need, you're out the entire cost, for a product you can't use.

Pirating, in that case, for the express purpose of determining suitability for purchase, is essentially a necessity. It would be *preferrable* if there were time-limited demo versions of the software, etc, so you can evaluate it without resorting to this sort of thing, but there isn't always.

Your typical pirate has no interest in every buying all the software he's collecting; he's not even seriously considering it. You know that and I know that. His actions are criminal both in action and intent, he does so by choice. The times I've needed to do such things, it was specifically with the intent to purchase, and done not by intent, but by necessity; I can't afford the cost of the software if it doesn't suit, there's no trial versions available, and there's nowhere I know of that does open-box returns; my choices are to suck up the loss, or to try the software illegally and, if it does do what I need, buy it. If not, delete it.

Software seems to be almost unique in this regard. If I buy a TV set, take it home and try it out, I can return it if it doesn't really suit my needs. Before I buy a car, I can take a test drive, without needing to pony up the full price of the car. If I buy a computer, I can return it, perhaps with a restocking fee. If I buy a book, I can return it. A guitar, a coat, etc, etc, etc.

In fact, there are very few items which you can't either try-before-you-buy or return if they don't suit your needs. Things such as medicines, or food, where there's a safety risk in accepting it back. Things which change state on use - see if they'll take a quart of motor oil back after it's run through your engine even for a mile. Things where purity of product matters.

OS X is PROOF linux that sucks! 17076
Ah, the error appears to be on your side... look above, I clearly said: "centered around WiMax and wireless based IP phones" not sure who...

Basically, it comes down to "products" versus "consumables"; a product can be returned, but a consumable, by its nature, once used even just to try it, changes state - value - significantly, and thus can't be returned.

Software, however, is not a consumable. Like a TV, trying it to see if it suits does *not* alter its nature in such a way as to reduce value; it's the same bits as it was before, just as the TV gets the same stations it did before.

However, software vendors too often treat software as a consumable. Once opened, it can't be returned. This leaves the potential customer with basically four options:

1) Buy it, and if it doesn't suit, eat the loss 2) Don't buy it, go use something else 3) See if you can find someone else who uses it, and try theirs 4) Steal a copy, and if it suits, buy it

Take my Borland experience. No way I'd eat the loss; couldn't afford it at the time. I was *already* using something else, but it was lacking, which is why I was interested in a replacement product in the first place. At the time, I knew nobody who was both local and a programmer, at least, not a C programmer.

Voila, we're at option 4. Which I did.

OS X is PROOF linux that sucks! 17079
snips On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 07:46:56 -0700, Snit We are? How weird. Let's see: "We can do...

By contrast, when I bought my car, I found several which had similar capabilities, costs, etc, so I had to evaluate them - try them out. Here, I can "try before I buy" and return the product even after "opening"; I did so, and bought one of them. I tried several, with the intent to buy *if* they suited my needs, and did buy one.

I - as the consumer, expected to pay good money for a product - have a reasonable expectation that, barring cases where trying a product actually alters it to a less valuable state, I should be able to try it first and decide if it's the right product. Most software vendors nowadays are getting this, and are producing trial or demo versions of their products.

Game demos which ship with, say, three levels instead of the full 29. Applications with time-sensitive installations or registrations. "Lite" versions, which do most of the things you'd expect, but leave out, usually, some of the higher-end stuff. "Watermarked" apps, which will produce images, documents, videos, whatever, with full capabilities, but with "DEMO" ghosted over the output.

If a vendor doesn't get that, though, and you can't get it from a vendor that will accept "open box" returns, you really have little choice but to pirate the stuff in order to evaluate it.

That doesn't make pirating of any sort "right"; it remains, legally, ethically and morally, the wrong thing to do. The only saving grace, the only thing that separates people who pirate that way from the run of the mill pirates, is that the run of the mill pirates aren't evaluating, they're just flat-out stealing, with the *specific intent* of stealing.

This is easily demonstrated by the fact that if you do happen to know any pirates, or happen to run across a pirate website, etc, you'll see that they tend to have largish collections of software, much - even most - of which they never actually use, and they have "full" versions of products even where the products are offered in a trial version. Since they don't even use the stuff, and since there are legitimate evaluation versions, they can't even pretend to be doing it for purposes of evaluation, and they generally don't even try.

That's just a *tad* different from wanting to legitimately try something, with intent to buy, but being unable to try it without illicitly obtaining a copy.

OS X is PROOF linux that sucks! 17077
snips On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 22:36:02 -0600, Oxford Actually, it is. You seem to be unable to read well...

Is it still stealing? Yes. Is it still a bad idea? Yes. Is it undesirable? Yes. Is it something we'd choose to avoid? Yes. Will we? Sure; when vendors offer trial versions, or stores accept open-box returns.

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OS X is PROOF linux that sucks! 17074